Willie Carson - Interview
Five times Champion Flat Jockey Willie Carson, talks to The PJA and reflects on his Epsom Derby experiences and highlights.
Some Facts about Willie Carson
5 times Champion Flat Jockey (1972, 1973, 1978, 1980, 1983)
17 British Classic Races
23 centuries
Total Winners in UK= 3,828
4th winning most jockey after Richards, Piggott & Eddery
Epsom Derby & Oaks
Derby
1979 - Troy
1980 - Henbit
1989 - Nashwan
1994 - Erhaab
Oaks
1977 - Dunfermline ·
1980 - Bireme
1983 - Sun Princess
1990 - Salsabil
1 - During your career as a jockey you rode four Epsom Derby Winners. What similar qualities did Erhaab, Nashwan, Henbit & Troy have and what gave them that winning edge?
Dick Hern obviously comes into the equation as he trained three of the four horses I rode to win in the Derby. Horses that win the Derby are some of the best colts in their three year old career and every trainer that has a colt in mind for that race will have him at his prime for that first Saturday in June. The colts that run and win The Derby are the best as they are trained to perform in a race where, class, stamina, balance, ability and mentality all come into play.
2 - Nashwan tallied four Group 1 wins during his career, was there anything about him that made him stand out from your other Derby winners?
Nashwan was an exceptional horse as he was so versatile. He could win from 5 furlongs to a mile and a quarter and his class saw him through.
3 - The track at Epsom is unique in respect of its adverse cambers and undulations, what do you feel a Derby horse needs to have physically in order for it to cope well with the course?
The mile and a quarter at Epsom racecourse challenges the thoroughbred’s speed, ability, balance, mentality and soundness and a Derby horse must have all these qualities to win. They need to handle the undulations of the track as well as the downhill turn off Tattenham Corner. It’s also such a big occasion with an electric atmosphere, which can easily bring a thoroughbred to boiling point and more even before the race begins, so they also need to be mentally tough.
4 - From your four Derby wins, which victory stands out the most for you and why did it mean so much?
They all stand out as they were all very talented horses but the best on Derby day, without a doubt, was Troy. He beat a very good crop of three year olds some of which were future Group 1 winners, so he would be my best Derby winner but not the best I ever rode.
My win on Erhaab in 1994 was possibly one of my best rides in a Group 1, it was a brave mans ride where I used my head as much as my strength. Luckily when I started coming down the inside, I began to shout at the other jockeys to give me room as I still had a lot of horse underneath me. Generally, if a jockey has no horse left and they are not going to be in contention they will give way. I came from a long way off and I was lucky not to get checked.
5 - Are there any particular Derby rides/experiences that didn’t go as well as you thought they would?
Jalmood, John Dunlop trained him and he won the Lingfield Derby Trial as his prep race. On that day he came round the corner and down the hill at Lingfield as if he was on big rubber tyres. But when we got to Epsom, during the race he didn’t want to know, I felt he had lost his confidence. You only want to ask a racehorse to come down a mountain once in its life.
6 - As a jockey riding in The Derby, what is in the forefront of your mind to ensure you give the horse every chance around the track?
Your feelings and thoughts as a jockey before such a big event like The Derby changes throughout your career and there is always the excitement and the adrenalin rush to contend with. But throughout my career I learnt to deal with these feelings and I felt I became more reliable as my career went on, because I had been through it so many times before. I think that the occasion of The Derby gets to some young jockeys as it's so important to them and this is when mistakes are made. I always remember walking around the racecourse on Derby day and feeling as if I was walking on cushioned air as there is such a big atmosphere, so winning it was an unbelievable thrill!
7 - Can you compare the atmosphere of The Derby to any other race?
No. I will never forget rounding Tattenham Corner on Troy and coming into the straight in about 13th place. I looked up and saw the mass of people’s heads either side of the strip of carpeted grass we were on and the crowd began to roar us home. That vision and feeling will never leave me.
When you ride the Derby, you can hear people cheering you on and talking to you, especially early on in the race, which is unique compared to other races, as you have a crowd the whole way round the track. In the old days, the horses had to go through the gipsy camp on the way to the start, which was always a bit hair raising and us jockeys would worry that our colt was going to try and mount one of the gipsy ponies or would be too scared to walk past a coloured pony! Again this was another test for the horse.
8 - There is a theory that some horses don’t necessarily train on successfully after winning The Derby. Would you agree with this and if so why do you feel this is so?
The Derby is a race that all connections of a horse would love to win. Fundamentally and historically The Derby winner is tested and proving his breeding potential as a stallion, who will then hopefully produce future success in his progeny. Therefore, the colt should arrive to take its place in The Derby in 101% peak condition. The preparation and then the race is so physically and mentally demanding that sometimes a horse may not really ever re-visit his best after such an big exertion.
9 - Do you feel the demands of a jockey today (physically, mentally) are any different from when you were riding?
I think jockeys today are fitter and are more inclined to think about their fitness to help them physically. Towards the end of my career, I began going to the gym to keep fit but when I was younger I didn’t really bother apart from running a bit.
I would rather have been a young jockey in my day than a jockey today, as there is so much temptation now. I think it must be hard to be focussed on building a career now as there are more distractions. We never got out and about much when I was young, so the only option was to ride and work hard.
10 - How did you carve your career as a jockey?
I became a jockey because of my size. My parents weren’t involved with horseracing and I had to learn alot and kept on learning throughout my career. I managed to get an apprenticeship with Gerald Armstrong in Middleham who was well known for giving apprentices a chance. I was a slow learner really as I didn’t ride my first winner until I was 19, race riding didn’t come naturally, I had to work hard at it.
11 - What would be your advice to any young jockey?
Work hard and experiment. Every time you ride in a race, it's an opportunity to improve and to try something new. Always aim to learn from each ride, keep your eyes open and watch what the more experienced jockeys do.
12 - Who would be your fancy for this year's Derby?
It wouldn’t surprise me if Curtain Call ran a big race. His trainer, Luca Cumani has won the race twice before with Kahyasi in 1988 and High Rise in 1998. It would be a great story if Luca Cumani were to win his third Derby in 2008, two decades exactly from his first winner and 10 years on since his last.